A claim like “There’s cultural genocide of Uyghurs in Xinjiang” is simply unreal to most Westerners, close to pure gibberish. The words really refer to existing entities and geographies, but Westerners aren’t familiar with them. The actual content of the utterance as it spills out is no more complex or nuanced than “China Bad,” and the elementary mistakes people make when they write out statements of “solidarity” make that much clear. This is not a complaint that these people have not studied China enough — there’s no reason to expect them to study China, and retrospectively I think to some extent it was a mistake to personally have spent so much time trying to teach them.

While I agree with the over all sentiment of this write up, as the vast majority of people criticizing China’s government don’t really care about human rights violations against Islamic minority groups.

However, utilizing that fact to shield any accusations of criticism against the government is fallacious. Any government enacting re-education camps on minority populations should be scrutinized.

This man has lived such a wild life, imagine getting groomed so hard that you become the president.

You’ll be happy to know that JP has falsely claimed numerous times that he is a member of the native Kwakwaka’wakw tribe of Ontario!

would recommend getting a more direct source to criticize in the future so im not considering opinion articles from a peoples magazine as a source

The direct source is the video linked in the article. Arguing the quality of a source material in a subjective debate is just admitting you don’t have a counter argument. This isn’t a scientific debate, the quote I gave you is directly from the primary source. You can choose not to believe the subjective information in the article, but I didn’t make any claims that weren’t direct quotes from a primary source.

Let me explain then. If there was an ancient tablet found with the words “God is dead” on it. Would we take that at face value? No, it doesn’t have any evidence to support it, there is no reason to engage in debate.

However if you suppose the tablet is correct, you would have to support that affirmation with additional supporting information. The statement of the tablet isn’t self evident, so it not really a serious claim. You are making it a serious claim by supporting it, and thus must be the one to provide evidence for that claim.

This is pretty basic debate, which is usually structured into the form of affirmation vs negation. The side of the affirmation is the one making a claim( god is dead), the side of the negation responds by denying the claim and responding to supporting evidence by proposing counter arguments.

It doesn’t matter that you didn’t make the original claims, only that you choose the side of the affirmation.

Sure

The claim was initially made by the meme. I am questioning this, yet you are here asking me for proof of the contrary.

The claim was made by a meme with no supporting evidence, and thus can be dismissed without evidence.

The meme is also inanimate and cannot defend it’s own affirmation. However, you chose to substantiate this affirmation, which means you now have the onus of burden of proof.

“The cure for that is enforced monogamy.”

About Alek Minassian, a man accused of killing six people after running them over with a van in Toronto: “He was angry at God because women were rejecting him. The cure for that is enforced monogamy. That’s actually why monogamy emerges.”

Oh, some incel murdered 6 people, must of been a woman’s fault somehow…

Is defending a literal misogynist terror attack enough evidence for you?

Its pretty sad to hear someone outright bully someone.

Lol, me disproving your unsupported claim that young men need empowerment is totally bullying…

Its not fair to judge the people desperate for compassion.

Huh, have you told Jordan Peterson that? If those people are utilizing their “empowerment” to displace the power of other actual disenfranchised groups… I’m totally fine with judging them.

On a side bar, being desperate for compassion has nothing to do with empowering young men. To seek empowerment is to seek power over people, you don’t connect to people by gathering power.

Some of these guys have grown up without a father figure or they are at the edge of suicide

And what does that have to do with empowering young men? They aren’t sad because they aren’t masculine enough, or disciplined enough. They have emotional baggage and should be seeking guidance from an actual therapist, not through some parasocial relationship with some bigot.

I am arguing that he exists with this purpose and that he is an easy resource that provides a guiding substance young men desire.

I don’t think you can speak for him or other young men… Nor can you really claim that he’s benefitted anyone with his ideology. I’m sure lots of people thought Jim Jones was helping them at the time. I’ve known people who got into JP and they thought he was helping him “make gains”, he wasn’t, he was just loosing friends.

why do young men flock to him if he is not what they want?

Because it easier to blame scapegoats like wokeism and feminist than it is to blame something more enigmatic like our current economic system.

The vast majority of JPs fans are young white men from the western hemisphere. People who 50 years ago would have been almost guaranteed the sweet middle class life if they could just learn a trade or go to college.

Well that’s not the case anymore for anyone. After the destruction of unions, the ever increasing profits reserves for shareholders, and the popularization of aggressive labour cutting management, were all in the same boat. If history has taught us anything is that to the privileged class, equality feels an awful lot like oppression.

These young men need a reason why they aren’t as successful as their grandfather’s, but they’re not ready to give up seeing the world in rose tinted glasses. They don’t want change, they want to revert back to the time where young white dudes got to catch the free ride.

I dont even listen to him

Then why would you state “I’ve never heard him state that”? Wouldn’t that have been redundant if you haven’t actually listened to him?

You don’t have be dishonest, you are entitled to have an opinion. However if you are engaging me with that opinion than I am entitled to explain why I think it’s wrong.

Is it because they dont know about Heidegger of Marie Kondo or is it that they arent as widely known/popular? (Tbh this is the first time in my life ive heard those names.)

Quite possible, our education system is a hot pile of trash. Heidegger is one of the fathers of embodied cognition, A philosophical and psychological theory that puts forth the idea that cognition is a dynamic development between an organism and it’s environment.

Basically, physical engagement with your environment is the most important aspect of cognition. This is why JP has you clean your room, it gets you to physically engage with your environment in a way that is manageable and achievable for everyone. Teaching people that physical engagement(embodiment) is the first step towards metaphysical problem solving.

The reason that this is dangerous is because it requires young men to embody(practice) the teachings enable to understand them. Which can be devastating if the teachings are being given by a insane person.

Marie Kando is kinda the nice version of JP. She utilizes embodied psych as well, but she’s responsible enough to limit what she teaches to practical things around the house hold. She is way way more popular than JP and is one of the best selling authors in recent history.

Stop assuming these young men have a burning desire to sift through hundreds if not thousands of options.

If these young men were actually in need, they would find actual help. The simple fact is that their needs are no greater than anyone else in the same age bracket. They’re just being told that they need help, because someone wants to sell them “help”.

but hes a figurehead for this space currently

Yes, because he’s one of the people who created the space in the first place. Jordan Peterson is just Andrew Tate for the pseudo intellectual, I could literally use your same exact arguments to support his popularity among young men. Do you hold the same respect for a literal human trafficker?

have never heard JBP say this.

I mean you asked for a quote and someone provided a quote. You can look up the quote and find articles about it.

It’s just one of the misogynistic lies he spews on the regular. I believe in the same interview he stated that high heels were invented to lengthen the legs of women to make them more attractive… In reality high heels were first worn by men to keep shit from getting in their shoes.

I have heard him say that agreeable people tend to be stepped on and that women tend to be agreeable… but thats not the same thing.

Lol, so much better… It’s your fault you are being stepped on, not the generations of oppression and systemic disenfranchisement. Does that apply to everyone? Is he saying that Africans were just to agreeable so we had to enslave them… Broken as logic.

asked if you could provide an example of how he isnt effective at empowering young men

Yes, I’m going to first prove God doesn’t exist, then I will work on proving the negative with JP … You can’t prove a negative my dude. If you are making the claim that he empowers young men, it’s up to you to provide the evidence that proves it.

Saying that women only do things to serve or benefit men doesn’t empower young men? That is literally telling young men that women are subservient to them…

Who exactly is stealing the power away from these young men? And what exactly are they taking away?

Can you give us a example of how JP actually empowers men?

Thats not how propoganda works.

Lol, so telling people what they want to hear under ulterior motivations isn’t propaganda?

Im asking you to formulate an opinion on one subject matter.

You are, but JP isn’t… That’s the whole point. His ideology involves embodied cognition, one which implores you to adopt a new set of behaviors and practices. He doesn’t just want to change how you think about one subject, he wants you to make systemic behavioural changes.

I can talk about the bible on how it is the most important piece of literature of all time and not be indoctrinated.

Yes, and I can talk about JP without being indoctrinated. However I can’t practice Christianity or JPs ideology without being indoctrinated. Practice in action is part of the indoctrination process.

You can take a quote of his, show me that it is both intended to bolster his dogmatic philosophy while also empowering young men.

His dogmatic philosophy was created to rile up young men, they are inseparable. The simple fact that you believe that young men need to be empowered is evidence of your indoctrination. What group of young people has more power and opportunities than young men in the west?

Just by being born in the US as a male makes me one of the most empowered beings on the planet. I have more influence over my government than most every other citizen on the planet. I will create and capture more wealth than nearly any other citizen on the planet. I have more opportunity in education and job placement than nearly any other person on the planet. There are nearly 8 billion people on the earth and the only other people who have an opportunity better than me are maybe a hundred million dudes who were born with more wealth. You haven’t had your opportunity or “power” taken from you, you’re just lazy, which is perfectly fine. The only problem with laziness occurs when you are also massively entitled.

Jordan Peterson’s entire scam is giving young economically disadvantaged men something to blame for their woes. Instead of blaming the shareholder, the management, or even economic policy, it’s because “men aren’t just allowed to be men anymore”. He takes that idea and mixes it with actual bits of stolen philosophy and pop psychology.

If there is anything meaningfully beneficial in his teachings, it’s scaffolding was erected by someone else. Why dig through the massive pile of shit when you could just go read the people he scavenged it from? Why read JP when you could just read Descartes or Heidegger, hell if you wanted the pop application of Enactivism go read Marie Kondo. She will also tell you to clean your room, but with 100% less transphobia.

I just want you to acknowledge that many people dont come to JBP for his stance on religion or trans issues.

That’s kinda how propaganda works… Even if you don’t come for the trans and religion dogma, you will be exposed to it.

Hitler as a good model for using effective communication skills for uniting his base regardless of the outcome.

Lol, it’s the same model… Invent a boogie man, lie, cheat, steal, and hurl abuse at those who oppose you. Yes, it would be like bringing up hitlers “leadership skill”. But, then ignoring the reality of what that “leadership” really entailed.

show me an example where it needs to be together then that is acceptable.

You can’t separate the two because he does not separate them. His philosophy leads him to believe in, and justify his own dogmatic views.

This is not a “separate the art from the artist” as this person’s art is getting people to embody his own philosophy.

Except hitler is known for his politics and racism.

And Jordan Peterson isn’t famous for his anti-trans dogma, or crazy fusion of religion and “philosophy”?

The meme was about mens health and how he is a bad resource for that view.

And I am staying that his religious and anti-trans attitude is a key reason of why he is a bad resource for that view. His views of religion and trans people are a inseparable part of his world view.

Tell me one thing he says (other than his religious takes or takes on trans) that you disagree with.

I mean, that’s like saying “tell me one thing Hitler says (other than racism and politics) that you disagree with”…

His “teachings” are completely entangled with religion and culturally conservative dogma. This aspect of his character isn’t really separable from his teachings or his actions.

To be honest, his actual “philosophy” is just a bunch of word salad that individuals can gleem meaning from when it suits them.

Countless young men do find him persuasive. They feel abandoned by everyone else and there is this man who comes along and convinces them he knows “the way”. Talking about how “unconvincing” his arguments are won’t stop this from happening.

There really isn’t a way to stop this from happening, short of a complete shake up of American culture and government. The only reason young men gravitate towards JP is because he is telling them what they want to hear.

For the first time in American society, young white men with degrees are no longer guaranteed the middle class life they have always been told they deserve. Instead of realizing that that has been the status quo for literally every other person in the country, and that the system is inherently corrupt…

They are told that they should feel angry, they are told they need to fight to maintain the status quo and domination of power. Jordan Peterson isn’t combating the emotional abandoment of men, he’s stoking it. His only care is to maintain the social norms racial and sexual supremacy.

Also… I don’t buy that young men have been emotionally abandoned, at least not moreso than any other time in history. Just compared to 30 years ago when I was a kid, men now a days have a plethora of ways to connecting to people, or seeking help.