I mean I’m not that extreme lmao that’s also a safety issue. Kids will be kids, they will not sit quietly all school day and be total lesson sponges lol
How much of a safety issue would it really be? Cell phones didn’t really become a thing for my age range until high school. If there was an emergency, there was a landline in the classrooms.
No kidding. Not to sound like an old fogey but we did really well without them for both “emergencies” and “fact checking”. I can only see them primarily as a distraction.
Yeah, it would suck for the staff, but I don’t think it would be that much more unsafe. I don’t think it’s a good idea, but I don’t think it’s particularly unsafe.
Schools got by fine without the Internet until probably the mid-2000s. They got by fine without computers until probably the 90s. You can make that argument about literally anything in a school right now. We live in a society built around smart phones and tablets. We can’t just pretend we don’t.
I already did unpack it: “Smart phones are a distraction for social media 99% of the time.”
Nor did I say the word “just”. You’re both ignoring what I did say and inserting your own words. They can be distractions with you know social media. But also back in my day they taught us Word, Excel, programming. You had a class with that. You didn’t need it in your pocket 24/7.
But also back in my day they taught us Word, Excel, programming
Well that’s an anecdote which I can easily counter with my own: We all immediately got around any firewalls the school had (which were a joke, you just browsed the right path and basically got around it) and played game and all sorts of nonsense at school.
Smartphones are here. Ban them all you want, kids get around it. Build a faraday cage, and your next active shooter gets extra time to do their work as teachers hunt for a landline. The list of cons vastly outweighs the pros. Hell just have a damn basket kids drop their phones in when they come into class. That’s still better than this nonsense.
Prohibition culture is generally a bad idea. You can’t tell kids “don’t have sex.” You do proper sex ed. You can’t block all signals out of a school, you create consequences for continued undesired usage and teach kids responsibility. As the original comment said: https://kbin.social/m/memes@lemmy.ml/t/443382/Why-must-we-be-done-this-way#entry-comment-2266000
Your line of thinking is what leads to rampant banning and garbage blanket solutions instead of education.
I don’t think y’all realize that not a single staff member or administrator or any employee of the school would be able to use a phone either (other than landlines I guess?). Schools aren’t just full of students lol
You mean that thing I specifically mentioned? Yes, I realize that. Would it be inconvenient? Yes, it absolutely would. Would it suck to work in that environment? Again, yes it would. If I’m just thinking about safety, I’m not sure it’s that much more unsafe.
I’m not a boomer. And I’m in no way advocating the use of a Faraday cage. Maybe read what is actually written instead of what you think was written. Hell I work in tech trying to get people up with the times…
It’s incredibly unsafe when you live in a society built around smartphones/tablets for health and safety tools to remove said smartphones.
A faraday cage is a fun thought exercise but wholly impractical. A lot of emergency systems - such as amber alerts - rely on their connectivity. A lot of schools also give out laptops/tablets.
It’s incredibly unsafe when you live in a society built around smartphones/tablets for health and safety tools to remove said smartphones.
But is it? Landlines can make the same emergency calls. A Faraday cage also doesn’t mean you can’t have an internal wifi that reaches outside that the staff can connect to, or even the students can connect through with a proxy controlling their connection.
I agree it’s impractical. But it doesn’t mean laptops and phones suddenly don’t work. They can still work within the cage and you can poke holes through it with a landline and a proxy to control traffic in and out.
Ultimately, it’s definitely not worth the engineering and the effort. I just don’t think that safety is the reason it is impractical.
No, but the attention span kids have these days seem to be shortening.
I hear this a lot but have yet to see evidence/sources from anyone. It’s just “look around you.” I don’t find it particularly compelling. I didn’t exactly sit quietly as a kid myself.
It’s a pretty well known fact that constant tech decreases attention spans, in both children and adults. How many times have we been on Lemmy/Reddit on the browser and picked up our phone to… check Lemmy/Reddit?
That appears to be a quickly referenced theory by one (yes qualified) person on one blog post without a study behind it. I could also argue that kids generally have short attention spans but social media just allows them to indulge in it more, and they will of course prioritize attention to that over other things. That is not the same as “it shortens their attention spans.” We need at least one study here or at least something more substantive than a one-liner linking social media and decreasing ones attention span. I’m not sure if you noticed, but blog is actually focusing on how to reach kids and strategies to get them to pay attention. It has one throw away non-cited line about social media shortening attention spans.
I should also point out that I also did a cursory Google search before writing the previous comment, and that was the only post I saw as well. The reason you selected it is because there was no other decent hit when you searched I imagine.
Let me be clear here, the only reason I am sort of arguing about this is because there is a really bad propensity for older people to say something is wrong with younger people. We see it over and over again. I think social media is actually very harmful to kids, but I have yet to see anything that shows it actually diminishes ones attention span. And the reason I really don’t like that claim is because it seems to be just another variation of “kids these days.”
what is the curriculum? it varies state to state, school to school. Are you bothered that you did not have access to the utility of a smart phone when you were in school?
The physical task of trying to find a relevant and modern textbook for a class project used to be a painful chore. i Graduated highschool in 2006. the best phone was still the Original Razer Flip and all litany of keyboard phones, Envy, Voyager, Alias. The internet was mostly just forums. only sites that were decent used to be the News ones until they turned 24 hour…
I may not have a book in my hand, but I’m reading all day. name a curriculum that competes with the smart phone ecosystem.
The thing about smartphones and the internet in general is that there is a lot of crap out there. Sure kids may read more, but what they read matters. If they’re reading websites that deny the Holocaust or give bogus health advice like bleach curing autism or things like that, that’s not good. Without education, how are they going to know what they read on their phone is garbage?
I’m not them, but while ADHD is a problem, social media and the dopamine quick-hit style that internet content has taken has had a noted effect in reducing attention spans.
I mean, I’m doing quite well having gone though school without smart devices and 100% would have never gotten straight As if I had one when I was a kid. And I’m every type of ADHD you can be diagnosed as…
It’s 2023. Whether we want them or not they’re here. They in the workplace, they’re in our classrooms, they’re at home, they’re everywhere. Any attempt to truly prohibit smart devices is not as simple as it sounds and presents other challenges in the modern era.
Prohibition culture does not work for most things. If we want kids to stop using phones in class, we can take a more nuanced approach with taking it away as a blunt measure to occasionally deploy.
Schools should just be one huge faraday cage. Kids have to learn to focus and pay attention.
And they need to learn the curriculum
I mean I’m not that extreme lmao that’s also a safety issue. Kids will be kids, they will not sit quietly all school day and be total lesson sponges lol
How much of a safety issue would it really be? Cell phones didn’t really become a thing for my age range until high school. If there was an emergency, there was a landline in the classrooms.
Right? Somehow schools survived until at least the 2010s without every kid having a cellphone in them at all times.
No kidding. Not to sound like an old fogey but we did really well without them for both “emergencies” and “fact checking”. I can only see them primarily as a distraction.
Yeah, it would suck for the staff, but I don’t think it would be that much more unsafe. I don’t think it’s a good idea, but I don’t think it’s particularly unsafe.
Ban pocket calculators because the abacus exists. Lazy kids aren’t learning how to do arithmetic because of them.
We don’t live in that world anymore.
Schools got by fine without the Internet until probably the mid-2000s. They got by fine without computers until probably the 90s. You can make that argument about literally anything in a school right now. We live in a society built around smart phones and tablets. We can’t just pretend we don’t.
Those were tools. Smart phones are a distraction for social media 99% of the time.
I’m sorry - computers and the Internet are “just tools” but smart phones are not? Do I really need to unpack that?
I already did unpack it: “Smart phones are a distraction for social media 99% of the time.”
Nor did I say the word “just”. You’re both ignoring what I did say and inserting your own words. They can be distractions with you know social media. But also back in my day they taught us Word, Excel, programming. You had a class with that. You didn’t need it in your pocket 24/7.
Well that’s an anecdote which I can easily counter with my own: We all immediately got around any firewalls the school had (which were a joke, you just browsed the right path and basically got around it) and played game and all sorts of nonsense at school.
Smartphones are here. Ban them all you want, kids get around it. Build a faraday cage, and your next active shooter gets extra time to do their work as teachers hunt for a landline. The list of cons vastly outweighs the pros. Hell just have a damn basket kids drop their phones in when they come into class. That’s still better than this nonsense.
Prohibition culture is generally a bad idea. You can’t tell kids “don’t have sex.” You do proper sex ed. You can’t block all signals out of a school, you create consequences for continued undesired usage and teach kids responsibility. As the original comment said: https://kbin.social/m/memes@lemmy.ml/t/443382/Why-must-we-be-done-this-way#entry-comment-2266000
Your line of thinking is what leads to rampant banning and garbage blanket solutions instead of education.
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I don’t think y’all realize that not a single staff member or administrator or any employee of the school would be able to use a phone either (other than landlines I guess?). Schools aren’t just full of students lol
You mean that thing I specifically mentioned? Yes, I realize that. Would it be inconvenient? Yes, it absolutely would. Would it suck to work in that environment? Again, yes it would. If I’m just thinking about safety, I’m not sure it’s that much more unsafe.
School shootings weren’t really a thing until after you graduated you dumb fucking boomer.
Things change, and I’m tired of stupid trogladites inhibiting innovation because it’s different than what they’re used to.
Get with the times, or move the fuck out of the way.
I’m not a boomer. And I’m in no way advocating the use of a Faraday cage. Maybe read what is actually written instead of what you think was written. Hell I work in tech trying to get people up with the times…
It’s incredibly unsafe when you live in a society built around smartphones/tablets for health and safety tools to remove said smartphones.
A faraday cage is a fun thought exercise but wholly impractical. A lot of emergency systems - such as amber alerts - rely on their connectivity. A lot of schools also give out laptops/tablets.
But is it? Landlines can make the same emergency calls. A Faraday cage also doesn’t mean you can’t have an internal wifi that reaches outside that the staff can connect to, or even the students can connect through with a proxy controlling their connection.
I agree it’s impractical. But it doesn’t mean laptops and phones suddenly don’t work. They can still work within the cage and you can poke holes through it with a landline and a proxy to control traffic in and out.
Ultimately, it’s definitely not worth the engineering and the effort. I just don’t think that safety is the reason it is impractical.
Ok go find the nearest landline during an active shooter.
They’re at the front of every classroom near the teacher. Along with several in the front offices, even the nurse has one. That wasn’t difficult.
No, but the attention span kids have these days seem to be shortening. Phones and the current state of social media intake doesn’t help.
That said, a faraday cage is absolutely too far, but they don’t need their phones when they should be focusing on the course.
I hear this a lot but have yet to see evidence/sources from anyone. It’s just “look around you.” I don’t find it particularly compelling. I didn’t exactly sit quietly as a kid myself.
Quick google search: https://santamaria.wa.edu.au/decreasing-attention-spans-jennifer-oaten/
It’s a pretty well known fact that constant tech decreases attention spans, in both children and adults. How many times have we been on Lemmy/Reddit on the browser and picked up our phone to… check Lemmy/Reddit?
That appears to be a quickly referenced theory by one (yes qualified) person on one blog post without a study behind it. I could also argue that kids generally have short attention spans but social media just allows them to indulge in it more, and they will of course prioritize attention to that over other things. That is not the same as “it shortens their attention spans.” We need at least one study here or at least something more substantive than a one-liner linking social media and decreasing ones attention span. I’m not sure if you noticed, but blog is actually focusing on how to reach kids and strategies to get them to pay attention. It has one throw away non-cited line about social media shortening attention spans.
I should also point out that I also did a cursory Google search before writing the previous comment, and that was the only post I saw as well. The reason you selected it is because there was no other decent hit when you searched I imagine.
Let me be clear here, the only reason I am sort of arguing about this is because there is a really bad propensity for older people to say something is wrong with younger people. We see it over and over again. I think social media is actually very harmful to kids, but I have yet to see anything that shows it actually diminishes ones attention span. And the reason I really don’t like that claim is because it seems to be just another variation of “kids these days.”
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Of course not, but I think we should at least act as if they should.
Knowing it’s not possible, though.
My kids are in 5th, 3rd and 1st grade. I wouldn’t want them on their phones during class as they grow up.
Like I said prior, I don’t think kids should be on their phones either.
Schools should be a battle royale, leave them on an island to battle and the last kid standing gets to go home.
How will this plan affect my real estate taxes?
Not well I imagine, but you’ll get to see an epic battle every exam season.
They do that multiple times a week, it’s called “phys ed”
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what is the curriculum? it varies state to state, school to school. Are you bothered that you did not have access to the utility of a smart phone when you were in school?
The physical task of trying to find a relevant and modern textbook for a class project used to be a painful chore. i Graduated highschool in 2006. the best phone was still the Original Razer Flip and all litany of keyboard phones, Envy, Voyager, Alias. The internet was mostly just forums. only sites that were decent used to be the News ones until they turned 24 hour…
I may not have a book in my hand, but I’m reading all day. name a curriculum that competes with the smart phone ecosystem.
The thing about smartphones and the internet in general is that there is a lot of crap out there. Sure kids may read more, but what they read matters. If they’re reading websites that deny the Holocaust or give bogus health advice like bleach curing autism or things like that, that’s not good. Without education, how are they going to know what they read on their phone is garbage?
Stupid.
I will learn the curriculum when the curriculum stops being wrong and occasionally straight up propaganda
Can’t use that to explain Cs in math and physics.
Not all of us have the luxury of that ability
I have very little faith the person you’re responding to even acknowledges the existence of ADHD .
I’m not them, but while ADHD is a problem, social media and the dopamine quick-hit style that internet content has taken has had a noted effect in reducing attention spans.
Source?
Take your pick from any any of these
(Each word is a different link)
I mean, I’m doing quite well having gone though school without smart devices and 100% would have never gotten straight As if I had one when I was a kid. And I’m every type of ADHD you can be diagnosed as…
It’s 2023. Whether we want them or not they’re here. They in the workplace, they’re in our classrooms, they’re at home, they’re everywhere. Any attempt to truly prohibit smart devices is not as simple as it sounds and presents other challenges in the modern era.
Prohibition culture does not work for most things. If we want kids to stop using phones in class, we can take a more nuanced approach with taking it away as a blunt measure to occasionally deploy.